Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in the world. It’s Dr. Jan Fortman with Relationship Matters TV. I hope everyone is having a beautiful, beautiful day. We’re here in Chicago, at least I am, and it’s been a nice couple of days. Yesterday it was almost 60, the day before it was in the 50s, today I think it was in the upper 40s, and guess what, tomorrow we are expecting a lot of snow. You know what they say about living in Chicago, you always make sure that you pack a change of seasons as far as clothes in your car because you never, never, never know. Well, this month is Women’s History Month, and in Women’s History Month we celebrate the contributions women have made to the United States, and we recognize the specific achievements women have made over the course of American history in a variety of fields. Today I want to introduce you to someone you might already know, a Black woman who you should know. Her name is Dr. Patricia Bath, B-A-T-H, and she is a true trailblazer. Dr. Bath fought to eradicate blindness, so she invented a tool that corrects cataracts during surgery. She was the inventor of cataract removal surgery. I have to thank her for that because I had two cataracts, one in both eyes, and now I can see clearly. She was the first African-American woman to receive a patent for a medical invention. As a matter of fact, she has five. So what I want you to do is just look up Dr. Patricia Bath. She is someone who you should know. Now, someone else you should know who’s on my show this evening, her name is, you know, I’m gonna say attorney Denise Lettau. Denise is an attorney. She joined the National Care Advisors in October 2020. And guess what, she worked as a research assistant at The Institute of International Law in Germany after the fall of the Berlin Wall. She worked as a senior lecturer at Humboldt University in Berlin. Now, in her banking career, what she did, she practiced law, and then before she entered the banking career, she’s done a whole lot of stuff. In her banking career, she focused on servicing the disabled and the elderly, but I’m going to let her talk more to you about who she is and what she does. Let me bring to you right now, Denise Lettau. Hi Denise.
Denise Lettau
Hi Dr. Janice, thank you so much for having me this evening.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Well, thank you, thank you for being my guest. Where are you located now?
Denise Lettau
I am in Miami, Florida.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, I’m sorry. I know you’re in Chicago. I didn’t last weekend. I was there Friday, Saturday, and Sunday, speaking at an event.
Denise Lettau
Oh my goodness, and it was 84 degrees.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, well, I don’t want to know what it is right now. So, Denise, it’s so wonderful to have you here. You know, when I read your bio and just read some things about you, it’s so much that I just want you to start out from the beginning. First of all, tell me, just tell me how you started out in any of your several careers.
Denise Lettau
I have to say mostly by chance. One of the things that I should say is that first of all, I am the daughter of a military man, so I’m a military brat. My father fought in Korea and Vietnam. I was in Germany between the ages of three weeks and three years, and they also did travel quite extensively, so somehow that desire to travel never really left me. When I decided that I wanted to move abroad, and I wasn’t very picky about where I wanted to go, the job, it turns out that I, you know, I’d gone to law school, and the job that was available to me was in Germany, and it was working at a university. So it’s really, it’s not that I sought these things out, it’s kind of the way that things unfolded for me in the best way possible. And I know that’s one of the things that we’re going to kind of talk about is how you can have things happen that also are not necessarily good, but at least at the time, and then they turn out to be that thing that transforms your life for the better. So that’s, I’ve never selected almost anything that I’ve done, and for me, planning doesn’t work. So for people who plan and it works, that’s fantastic. It’s never worked for me. I’ll move to the United States. I lived in Germany when I was a child. We moved to the States, and then as an adult, I moved back to Germany as an adult. I was there for 12 years, and then I came back to the United States, Florida, where my parents had retired. So that’s how I ended up.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
What made you want to go back to Germany since you left, I mean, when you were like little bitty?
Denise Lettau
Again, it wasn’t so much I wanted to live abroad. I wanted to learn a foreign language, and I just wanted to have that experience, that like, I’m gonna say worldview, that experience. It was just, I don’t know where it came from, honestly, but it was just something that I always wanted to do, and the opportunity came, and I took it.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So tell me what you did, your career while you were in Germany.
Denise Lettau
I taught American law to German students, which was a lot of fun, and I have to say they are very, very good students because I taught the class in English, they had their exams in English. That was essentially my role always at the university, was also to give the American perspective or point of view on pretty much anything, whether that was pretty much happening in the United States. So I was in Germany when the Wall came down, so even that time leading up to that, all of the kind of turmoil between East and West Germany was happening. People were starting to try to get out of East Germany, they were fleeing to Hungary, they were going all over trying to, they were just done. They’d had their 40 years of the Socialist system, and they were done. So really, I just happened to be there when all of this was going on, and my job really was largely to kind of give the American viewpoint to German students, also have them understand the way Americans think, which is very different than the way that Germans think, especially legally. We have a system that is very unique in the world. There’s nowhere else in the world that you have the type of jury system that we have or even the type of just generally the way lawsuits are and the incredible sums of money that people can be awarded by a jury. That doesn’t really exist anywhere else in the world.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Now you’ve told me something that I know, you know, we always assume that everything’s the same. So curious, how did the students accept the difference, you know, and were they especially legally taught law? Did they feel that our system was better than theirs, or what did they think? Were they surprised at the difference in the system?
Denise Lettau
I think that they thought that our system, which is what most Europeans think, is that our system is strange and very different, but also very fascinating. I think that they were very fascinated by our system, just the way they are about the United States in general. This is a very large country, you know, Germany, France, those are small countries comparatively. I think California has the same economy size as Italy or even I think probably Italy and France. So it’s very unique to them, it’s very interesting. I think most Europeans think that’s interesting, but they would rather leave it at that. America is really for Americans.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, I mean, we can handle it because this is our culture.
Denise Lettau
Right.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
I imagine that was an experience while you were there when the Wall came down.
Denise Lettau
Go ahead.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh no, I was literally watching TV when it started, and everybody got in their car and started to head towards Berlin because it was unbelievable. It really was.
Denise Lettau
Oh, I imagine, I imagine. Okay, the question was, many countries don’t have a word for freedom. What about Germany?
Denise Lettau
Freiheit. They very much have a word about freedom. One of the things that it’s important to remember about Germany is after the Second World War, we had a lot to do with the way that their current government exists and runs. So after they lost the war, so we had Hitler there, who pretty much rampaged through Europe, and after the Americans and the French and even the Russians and the Italians crushed Hitler, we rebuilt Germany, and we also reformed a lot of their laws. We did a number of things there that in one way, they’re closer to Americans than other Europeans by virtue of that, actually, because they have a real democracy. It’s not exactly like ours, and the laws are not exactly like ours, but overall, we assisted in writing their constitution, for example. So they definitely believe in freedom, and what’s happened is what usually happens is after the horrific things that happened in World War II, they’ve shifted where they’re almost too much to the other extreme, where everything is debated to death.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, right.
Denise Lettau
So it’s a different, so what they’ve gone, they’ve gone from just listening to whatever whoever is saying it who’s up top, now they’re questioning everything. So that’s how their society changed after the war, but they do definitely believe in freedom, and right now they’re probably, I mean, we say England because, you know, that’s where, that’s the history and the founding of this country were Brits, but we really, I think, have more in common with Germans right now.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, okay. So what made you go into law?
Denise Lettau
The only thing that I’ve ever been able to do well is read and write, and I didn’t know whatever else to do, and I also do, yeah, no, I’ve also kind of have a thing about justice, right, what’s right and what’s wrong. So originally, I was thinking of, you know, maybe even working for some type of government agency or something like that. So I’ve always, but I’ve always been interested in law from that perspective, like what, you know, what in society is right and what in society is wrong, and how do we correct that, like now bringing back, for example, voting rights as they previously were. We have a lot of things that are happening right now in this country that, in a way, we seem to be losing rights as opposed to gaining more rights. So that’s always something that I’ve been interested in.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, okay, all right. So now you left, you taught law in Germany, and then you came, you did that for, you said, for 12 years, okay, and then you came, you moved back to the United States, right? Okay, so now what made you move back to the United States?
Denise Lettau
Okay, now it’s where it gets very interesting and very personal. I got divorced. I had married, I got divorced. My parents were also getting older, and I did not want to basically remain there, so I came back to the U.S. Again, my parents had retired here, they were then in their 60s. I’d been away for a total of 15 years, nobody was very happy about that. I was supposed to be gone for two, I was gone for 15 altogether. Yeah, I had a big chunk of my life that actually, what we’ll talk about when aging is that the second stage of my life, so the really the building stage of my life was actually outside of the country, and that’s really when you’re creating your life, your family, your career, and all that, that I did not have here, which is why I was really starting all over again when I came back.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, so you start over again and back into practicing law, so to speak. Did you teach law, or you had your own practice?
Denise Lettau
No, I got very lucky. I was hired very quickly by a law firm that they actually needed somebody who was fluent in German. That’s the only reason I got the job, seriously, because I really did not have any other skill set. So I did that for a few years. What I think is good is that for people, especially I think younger people, younger women, it’s not at all going to be a straight line. I am a very late bloomer, so I try things, I tried that, I knew that that was not really something that I ever wanted to do, but of course, I had to make a living. So once I had the opportunity to go into business…
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You said that’s something you didn’t want to do, you mean remaining into law?
Denise Lettau
Well, I think, I mean, practicing law, yeah, law is one thing, practicing law at a law firm, I didn’t really, that wasn’t really one of my goals, but I had to make a living.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, so you worked for the law firm, and you can speak German, so how long did you stay there?
Denise Lettau
I was there for about four years, and then I managed to meet someone who was in banking who felt that, you know, this would be a really great opportunity for you, and it was, it did save my life 100 percent. I was in banking for about 15 years in total. It was very, very good to me. I learned a lot in terms, especially in this country, acquiring wealth. Most of my clients were extremely wealthy, so it was a real learning experience for me, and it was probably the best thing I’ve ever done, definitely. But that was also, I didn’t plan that. Somebody said to me, okay, I think it would be really good at it, and I thought, well, you know, why not? You know, banking has a better work-life balance than practicing law does.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, now something you said, you said it 100 percent saved your life. So can you tell us about that?
Denise Lettau
Sure. No, I came back with, I came back with, you know, not much, and it was from there that I had the opportunity to make a very good living, and I had the opportunity to, you know, have a really nice size 401k and to learn about various parts of things that usually you don’t grow up learning as much about, which we probably should. We should learn, we should have a better financial education. My parents were wonderful people, but they were not great, they were not great with money. They were wonderful, but that was not their thing. So it gave me that education of, you know, really, you know, making a decent living, saving a substantial part of it, or as much as you possibly can, investing what you can, being very good about, you know, looking for bargains, looking for, you know, if you go to a bank, you want to have the best, you want to get the best rates, you want to get the best, usually we are not having that mindset, but we should. So really, it taught me, you know, if you’re getting a mortgage, are you just going to wherever, or are you going to have these people actually compete for your business by giving you a better rate? So that’s why I say it saved my life, because it opened my eyes to, and there is a saying, it’s not how much you make, it’s how much you keep. That is very true, right? So you will read stories about janitors that leave millions of dollars to universities because they worked hard, they were very frugal, they saved their money, and they had an end goal, which was to leave an incredible legacy, such as leaving a million dollars to a university, or you’ll hear those stories all the time, and that’s because people, they were very good at how they manage their money. And so that’s how it saved my life, because I was not very good prior to that. I’m still not as good as I should be, but I was definitely way off.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
I think probably a lot of people say that we are not where we should be. And so you had, now I read in your bio, a focus on disabled people, you know, and older people. So what made you decide to make that your focus?
Denise Lettau
That was really my role at the bank. So when I was hired, that was my role at the bank. Most of my clients had disabilities or they were older, and a lot of banks do try to specialize, or at least they should try to, for this particular type of clientele in assisting them, really trying to help make their lives better, making sure also that they’re not taken advantage of. That’s a huge part of that job, especially if they do have a lot of money. A lot of them have inherited that money, or there was some kind of lawsuit that they received a lot of this money from, something of that nature. So they had a lot of money, but a lot of the people around them didn’t necessarily have their best interest at heart. So part of my job is really to protect them and their funds, to make sure that they’re getting what it is that they need, and that the money is being used as it’s supposed to be used.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
I didn’t know that that was a part of, you know, the banking industry. I didn’t know that.
Denise Lettau
I did not know that until I was a part of the banking industry. There are particular sections, not in every bank, but they will have a section called for Special Needs Trust, or they will have a section that caters specifically to older clientele, and that really is to protect them from also their family, who tend to be the most exploitative, unfortunately.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, yes. So now you piqued my interest. What’s the worst scenario that you saw?
Denise Lettau
Oh my goodness, the worst, there’s so many. I would, I think some of the worst scenarios that I saw were really with children who had been in horrible, let’s say, medical malpractice types of lawsuits, that let’s say the child went to the doctor or something went wrong, there’s a lawsuit, the child is more or less pretty non-functioning, okay, and typically, quite often, you’ll have family members that feel that that lawsuit, that that money, that they won the lottery, and they spend a lot of time trying to figure out how to spend the money, and they come up with a lot of crazy, you know, I need, you know, I need to drive the latest and greatest, most expensive Mercedes, I need to have the biggest mansion that I can possibly find. Now, mind you, it’s usually a child, and what people have to understand is it might look like a lot of money, let’s say if it’s 10 or 50 million dollars, but if you have a five-year-old who needs all of their medical needs taken care of, that’s a lot of that money, even whatever can be covered by medical insurance, it’s not going to be 100 percent, so it’s still a very expensive proposition. You need people in the home to help care for them, you need to help maintain the home, they need to have a pretty decent lifestyle, maybe extra tutors, modifications to the home, special vehicles, all kinds of things that are very, very expensive to maintain, and in that sense, it was really awful that parents were just kind of like, you know, we need to go to Hawaii for five months, and you know, just crazy, crazy stuff. So, and that’s a whole component of a whole bunch of them together, because I don’t want to get sued, but there are a lot of things, but that’s just one of the services, you know.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Right, and something that people should be aware of. I have to go to a quick break, a quick commercial, but a request came in, and it said, can you speak a little German for those of us who have not heard that language? So what I want you to do is just tell my audience that we’ll be right back, don’t go away, okay, in German.
Denise Lettau
Wir kommen gleich zurück, bitte gehen Sie nicht weg, danke.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, thank you, and I know this person thanks you also. And in English, we’ll be right back.
[Music]
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
We are back with Denise Lettau. Now, what I want to do, and I hope that this works because the computer is doing all kinds of things, including trying to scan now, and no, we do not want you to scan now for any viruses. So I’m hoping to show you a video from Denise, so we’re going to share this screen, and it says share screen, and just me, and I’m going to put this on here, and hopefully, let’s hear it, but you all have to let me know if you saw it. I don’t think you can see. Did everybody else hear it? Oh, I don’t know. They have to, we have to come in and tell me if they could hear it. My computer was doing all kinds of things, but anyway, I have to try and play that again. But anyway, you, so we’re gonna shift. You talked about the different acts in life, act one, act two, and act three. I’m in act four probably, but tell us about that.
Denise Lettau
Okay, acts 1 to 25, those are really your learning years as a human being. So you come here, and you’re basically learning, acquiring knowledge. Act two, which is 25 to 50, you are building. You’re building your life, you’re building your career, you’re building your home, your family. It’s all about building, acquiring. It’s that whole beautiful part of your life that is very exciting and exhilarating because there’s lots going on. And then there’s act 3, 50 to 75. I’m in the middle of act three, which is where you start passing on your knowledge. So all that knowledge that you’ve acquired, you now start to pass on. You’re also more settled. Usually, people are less, you know, career-driven at this point. They’re more in a ready to slow down a bit, but very happy to pass on all the knowledge that they acquired. And from 75 to 100, it’s still all just passing on that knowledge, being that elder, but I mean it in the way of, you know, that person of wisdom within the community. No, people didn’t get upset about, I don’t, I think the word elder is beautiful, but in the, somebody messed up the word, so now people don’t like it. But really, we mean it as that wise sage, that person who has all that knowledge to pass on.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Now, your relationships affected you in the different acts.
Denise Lettau
Well, I think that, so when act one is from 1 to 25, I think most, especially women, between the ages of 18 and 25, possibly going on to 30 and older now, are trying to find their partner. So a lot of time is actually consumed with that. I think that the way that relationships have helped me tremendously, and even especially if they failed, is that you learn so much from them. And recently, it’s interesting because there was recently a study from Harvard about happiness, and happiness has everything to do with the relationships that you have, as well as it also affects your health. The more relationships you have, especially the older you get, usually the healthier you’re going to be because of this connection and this human, that’s the one thing that people think it’s, you know, food and water, and that’s all important, but you have to stay connected to people in a meaningful way, and isolation is actually the worst thing that people at any stage of their life can do. So for me personally, I would say, you know, during the, I was married, what, from 28 to 40, that was a lot of my building years. That was fantastic in that regard. Then I have what, I’m 50, I’m between 50 and 75. What relationship does to me now is gives me a tremendous anchor, and it’s very grounding, and it’s also more at this point of your life about companionship and having that human connection, having somebody that you are, I like that, walking through life with. And so all of these points in time are very important, but especially obviously the 25 to 50 and the 50 and beyond.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, okay. So now you talked about personal relationships. What about in those different areas, those different stages, professional relationships?
Denise Lettau
Professional relationships, the best thing that anybody can do is find and get a mentor. And if sometimes it happens naturally, I think that also the reason why my careers have done all of this winding and these strange U-turns is I’ve always had people guiding me or, you know, people saying, you know, you would be good at that, or you should try that, or because usually you don’t think about yourself in that way. I never wanted to work in a bank. I thought a bank, and like I said, it’s the best thing that ever happened to me. My parents are the ones who said, oh, you should be a lawyer. I never saw myself like that. So it’s quite often that somebody who provides mentorship is going to be that person that can see something inside of you that you can’t see in yourself. It’s probably, you know, one of the most important relationships that you can have wherever you are on the career ladder. Absolutely 100 percent important. The next relationship after that, I think you need, I think everybody should have some kind of a spiritual guide, however that, if that’s your pastor or your rabbi, whatever that is. I think that’s, it could be your mother. My mother was an incredible, I would put her up there with just about anybody in terms of spiritual knowledge. So that obviously, and then just within your community, I think it’s really important for people to find whatever it is that they can contribute, whatever that might be. It could be that you are just the great mom in the neighborhood and everybody can come to your house. It could be that, you know, you’re just this incredible volunteer at the school or whatever it is that you are passionate about and can contribute towards the community at large. I think that’s also extremely important in terms of relationships, and it’s also very good for your kids. So definitely, did I leave any of them out?
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
One thing out, right? Okay, the relationship, the relationship with yourself.
Denise Lettau
Oh yeah. Unfortunately, I think for women, this is me personally, although I have read it, we get really good at it when we hit 50. For some reason, I don’t know why it’s late, maybe some people are blessed and it’s much better. I know for me, that’s also the case. There’s some kind of turnaround of where you just start to accept yourself as you are and just own it. And you’re also not, or at least I wasn’t as much in the people-pleasing mode anymore. So you kind of tell it like it is once you hit that certain age, which is very famous. Black women are very famous for that. But yeah, I don’t think that, I think throughout my life, I think I’ve known who I am, but I don’t think I was totally comfortable in my skin until I hit 50. So very, the most, if you can do it before that, wonderful. And I think younger women are actually more advanced from what I think.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, oh yes, I do. I think they’re a lot more, my daughter-in-law, she knows exactly who she is and makes no excuses. She’s 27.
Denise Lettau
Oh wow.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Generation, I don’t know, but I see really powerful young women out there who are really doing incredible things, and they don’t, they already don’t make excuses for who they are.
Denise Lettau
Okay, yeah.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
The conference I was in over the weekend, I was amazed. There were young men and young women, and I was just kind of, I was awed, you know, and amazed at how they already knew who they were, because I thought at 20-something, I don’t even remember, but I am sure that I was into people-pleasing and, you know, do I still want to be accepted by my friends? As a matter of fact, I got married at 25 because all my friends were married.
Denise Lettau
Yeah.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
All my friends were married, and so, well, heck, and then when are you gonna get married, you know, what are you waiting on? But, you know, and like, and I got married, you know, but when you look back, it’s like, if I was where I am now, then I probably said, you know, I, you know, not that I wasn’t alone, my husband at that time, but you know what I’m saying. So yeah, you were divorced, and so now you’re remarried.
Denise Lettau
Yes, remarried, yes.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, wow. Ladies out there, come on.
Denise Lettau
I have to tell you a story. When I first moved here and I was not married, I had a neighbor, and it’s so weird, she came, she knocked on my door, I opened the door, this little lady standing there, she didn’t know, I mean, I never met her, and she goes, I remarried at 62, and then she walked away. I said, okay, I guess that’s what I need to hear. I guess you felt like I needed the boost or something.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Right.
Denise Lettau
Yeah, I remarried at 50. You know, I do think a lot of women say, oh, I don’t want to do it anymore or whatever. I don’t know that you, I don’t know, it’s very different. I did, I wanted to be married, and I’m glad that I got married.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, okay. Well, how old was I when I got married? My husband’s sitting over here somewhere. So I think I was 70.
Denise Lettau
Oh my God, that’s amazing.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, you know, yeah, well, you know, I had been not married, oh, I was divorced, and well, this is number three, so it took me three times to get it right.
Denise Lettau
I’ll be honest, Dr. Janice, this is my third marriage also.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, it’s okay.
Denise Lettau
It took me three times to get it right.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
It did, it did, yeah, yeah, and I enjoyed single life. It was a long stretch between the second marriage and the third marriage, you know, and I, you know, I had a good time, but then it was like, okay, you know, I’m kind of tired of being out here now, you know, and I like being married, you know, because like you say, when you get to the third one, after like, you learn from your mistakes, right, and you learn really what marriage is, is give and take and pick your battles. But anyway, so, and I know you had said that a major change can be the best thing, especially in midlife or older, can be the best thing that can happen to you, and it could be the worst thing that could happen to you.
Denise Lettau
Right, so it all depends on how you approach it, but clearly, and most people, if you look at most success stories that are out there, Colonel Sanders went bankrupt and was driving around in his car and then started selling fried chicken from his mother’s recipe. He was in his 70s when that happened. There are all of these stories of major disasters that people have had, and instead of, you know, just crawling in the bed and pulling the covers over their head, they decided, okay, now I’m really going to get to work. And I think what it did for me, and that’s in terms of my divorce and how that affected my, I think it just made me figure out what I could do, because I didn’t really have any other, I didn’t have any other options. So if people, so I was trying this, and I’m still there, kind of, I’m still trying, you know, where is that next frontier, I guess, is what I’m still looking for. What is it that I, how do I want to spend my remaining years? Because, I mean, I’ve reached a point where I do have more years behind me than in front of me. So how do I want that to look? And that, I’m very big on people not, when they think about aging, not only think about, there’s a lot of things you have to think about. You have to think about money and retirement and legal and stuff, but you also think just how do you want to live? How do you want to live, and how do you want to get up every day, and, you know, who do you want to do that with? Who do you want to be surrounded by? Those are things that most people, and I’m talking also about my clients, didn’t really think about, and that’s probably, that’s just as important. A huge piece is how do I want to live? Where do I want to live? What happens when I can no longer live on my own? What is that going to look like? These are the things that people don’t think about, and I really think that they should. I really think you should.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And so this question came in, and it really relates to what we’re talking about. Why is it that young people do not want to learn from older people? You know, they think they know everything, you know, why is it that they don’t? Some do, but the majority, it’s like, oh, they’ll say, oh, well, that was then, you know, and I can remember saying that, that was then.
Denise Lettau
Well, I think that, I think it’s part of becoming your own person and being an individual is not really wanting to hear, oh yeah, that’s how it was back, you know, I walked through the snow for 50 miles to get to the school, you know, that whole thing, and of course, nobody wants to hear any of that. But I think for me, it was at the age of 35, I said, you know, my parents really know a lot, like I need to be listening to these people, and I need to go out of my way to hear their stories, I really do. And I feel very blessed that I had the opportunity to do that while, unfortunately, they’re both gone. But I think it’s just, it’s like anything else, it takes you a while. I think my son just woke up, oh, you know, she actually, you know, she’s not that dumb, like she might actually know what she’s talking about. But I just think it’s part of being independent and being your own person and being an individual, and I think we’ve all done it. But I know I was guilty, like there was anything you want to hear about it, I got it over here, it says, is right.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You know, it’s been, as they say, a plum-pleasing pleasure getting to know you and to get some of your wisdom. So just in our conversations, what we’ve been talking about this evening, just give my audience a parting thought, something that you really want to leave them with, anything.
Denise Lettau
You only live once, you might as well make the most of it. And I do believe in, I think it’s Maya Angelou, it’s not, what is the saying by her, what remains is how you made people feel. That’s what they remember about you, is how you made them feel. It’s not what you gave them, it’s not, but it’s how you made them feel. So I would say as part of this journey that we’re all on, enjoy it, don’t let the hard, difficult parts keep you down. And in terms of what you want to leave of yourself, it’s really how you make people feel, how they look back on you.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Thank you, and you know, you just, one of my guests that just made me feel so relaxed and just so calm. I’m sitting here, I got my legs crossed, most of the time I’m like on it or something, but you just calm me, my friend. And from what you just said, Sandy Barney in this says, I put it on the screen, she says, I totally agree with what you said.
Denise Lettau
Thank you.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And then Gwendolyn Dunbar, let me repeat, yep, I agree with that too.
Denise Lettau
I for sure.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, Dunbar says, you think about what makes you happy and comfortable. I agree with your statement.
Denise Lettau
Thank you.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So thank you so much. It was a pleasure, it was a pleasure, and we will definitely stay in touch.
Denise Lettau
Thank you so much for having me on, and thank you to everybody, and I hope it was worth your time.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, you know, I know it definitely was, and you have fun in your 84-degree weather.
Denise Lettau
I will, good night.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Thank you. Wow, that was very, very enlightening, and with all the different phases, one, two, three, and four. So I’m in four, but you know what, it might be a five for me. But anyway, I want to thank all of you for being a part of this episode this evening. It was really great, and it was enlightening. So now for my shameless plug, if I can find it, but I do have a shameless plug, my own, so stay tuned.
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Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, here is my book, “The Secrets to How Not to Throw Mama From the Train.” And where can you purchase this book? You can purchase it on amazon.com, just type in “The Secrets to How Not to Throw Mama From the Train,” or you can get the book at jan4now125@gmail.com. You can get an autographed copy, and if you are having issues, or I should say if you want to learn more about how to navigate the challenges between adult daughters and their moms, just email me at jan4now125@gmail.com. Also, if you would like to be a guest on Relationship Matters, you can email me at jan4now125@gmail.com. If you would also like a book trailer or advertise your products or services, jan4now125@gmail.com. I will see you again next week, and next week I have someone on my show who lives the van life. In other words, she lives her life from a van. So I will see you again next week, same time, same place, here on Relationship Matters TV. Bye.
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