Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Hello, good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in the world. It’s Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman seeing you today with Relationship Matters. Well, I want to share a little bit with you before we get started. I had my second COVID vaccine, so now I at least psychologically feel so much better. I feel safer now. That was the second one. The first one I got, you know, no reactions or anything, but the second one, ah, you know, I had a little reaction, but whatever reaction I have, it’s a lot better than getting COVID. So I just wanted to share that with you. I’m still going to wear my mask and I’m still going to social distance. I’m not going to be in a crowd of people. I’m still going to remain safe, and I urge you out there, now this is just me because I know some of you will not take the vaccine, but even if you don’t, I’m encouraging you to take the vaccine. But if you don’t, still wear your mask and stay safe. Today we are going to talk about something that I think is really important. It’s important to me and it’s important to you. So parents, grandparents, this is another show that you definitely, definitely need to pay attention to. So I’m going to start off just reading some statistics that I found that were really eye-opening to me, and we’re going to talk about bullying. Bullying, and I know you hear a lot about it, and we have an expert today that’s going to really shed some more light on bullying, what it is, and what it does. But these are some statistics that I found. According to the National Bullying Prevention Center, one out of every five students report being bullied, meaning they were made fun of, they were called names, they were insulted, they might have been pushed or shoved or even spit on. And I was surprised to read that males say that they are bullied more so by it’s a physical kind of thing, whereas females is usually name-calling or rumor spreading or shaming or something on that order. And just to say this before we get in, when I met this young lady, I started thinking about, well, you know what, when I was in school, in elementary school, I was bullied. And I was talking to one of my girlfriends that I went to school with, and she said, well, you know, Janice, I was bullied too. And I’m like, well, what are you bullied? And she said, well, why were you bullied? And I was bullied because I’m five feet nine inches tall. In elementary school, I was this tall. I only weighed 97 pounds, and I was dark black. And the kids used to call me sticks. Hey, there go sticks, sticks. Oh, look at sticks, look at sticks. You know, and it’s a funny thing. As old as I am, I still remember that. And so now I’m tall, I’m skinny, and I had this crush on this guy. And I thought, why am I still remembering this at this age? And someone told him that I had a crush on him. So he walked up to me one day, and he said, Janice. And I’m like, what? He put his hand on my back, and he looked at my chest, and he said, you know what? I can put my hand on your back, look in your chest, and I can see my hand. I was devastated. But just think, I still remember that. So bullying is something, it affects us when we’re kids, but it affects us too, you know, when we are grown, unfortunately. So I’m not going to talk anymore. I’m going to bring my guest on, and my guest is Dr. Dorothy Towns Thompson. Hi, Dr. Dorothy.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Hi, how are you, Dr. Janice? It is wonderful being on your show. Thank you so much for inviting me.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Well, you know, I had to because once I read about you, I thought, you know, this is something, this is a subject matter that we really, really need to talk about. Before I start, I’m going to tell you a little something that you don’t know. We have a couple of things in common.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Okay.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
First of all, we both got degrees from National Louis University.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh, wow.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You got your doctorate, I got my master’s there.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Okay.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
We both taught and retired from the Chicago Public Schools.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You as a principal and me as a facilitator.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, it is.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, it is. So I’m going to tell you all a little bit about Dorothy and Dr. Dorothy, and then she’s going to expound. She is the founder and executive director of Bullying Prevention and Awareness 365 Inc., that’s BPA 365. And as I said, she retired from Chicago Public Schools as a principal in 2012. I retired in 2017. No, 2007, I’m sorry. She was a classroom teacher, she was a business manager, a school improvement coordinator, and she’s also worked in the field of alcohol and drug prevention in Iowa and Illinois. So Dorothy, that’s just a little brief something about you. Just tell us a little bit more about you.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Well, I’m just going to give a little bit about my background. I am number five of eight children, and I grew up in Woodlawn. And one of the things about growing up and being a part of a large family, I was basically shy when I was younger. I would not talk and really talk in class or talk too much in front of people. But growing up, you know, as I got older, I said, okay, I think I need to sort of grow out of this a little bit. But when I was younger, when I was in second grade, I was bullied by a girl who felt that she, well, hair a little neater, clothes, she dressed a little better. We, you know, like I said, five of eight children, you know, we didn’t have as much money as we’d like, so I guess I didn’t have, I didn’t dress as well as she did. So she would walk behind me and step on the back of my shoes. And so eventually I told her to, I stopped, I told her to stop, I turned around and I told her she needed to stop, and she actually stopped. I didn’t have any more problems with her after that. So, but even with that, I grew up, I always loved education. Even as a child, I would try and play rock teacher or something like that. But more importantly, I was driven into the field of education. So I, you know, I don’t know, I just love working and I love working with children. So one of the things is that I’m not only, you know, I’m also a mother, an aunt, and then also a grandmother. So one of the things about being a, not an educator or just being someone who cares about children, we look at, we’re looking at, we’re looking at safety, we’re looking at how we can help keep them safe along with the educational process. So within those different arenas, I’ve had an opportunity to intervene in cases where young people were being bullied. I definitely wanted to make sure that I found out all the information when situations happen, and most of the time we were able to get those issues resolved. In the field of alcohol and drug prevention, one of the key things that I did when I worked in that field, it transferred over when I decided to go back to the classroom. And so what I did is I reached out to the various mental health facilities to help bring in resources for some of the schools where I worked, and that was really beneficial, and it really cut down on the number of discipline issues that took place within those buildings. So I hope I answered your question.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, definitely. So how long did you work before you worked in bullying? How long did you work as far as, you know, your career before, not as a teacher, but your career before you really got into bullying?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
I’m going to say it’s like an overlap.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Because what happened is I had an opportunity to receive training in alcohol and drug prevention in Iowa first.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
And the way that that happened is my husband got a job in Iowa, so we moved there. So I was originally working in the classroom, and then we moved. So the position that I got was alcohol and drug prevention. So we moved to Rock Island, Illinois, but I actually worked in Rock Island and Davenport. And one of the things that I learned is that I went to different schools, different, I mean, it was very diverse. I went to various schools and organizations to do my presentations. So when I came back to Chicago, I worked, I continued to work with alcohol and drug prevention organizations, and I was a prevention coordinator with one organization and then a prevention. So I received a lot of training in the mental health field because there’s an overlap between some of the things that happen in relationship to bullying and also the relationship with alcohol and drug prevention. So you’re looking at the impact on people in reference to dealing with different, you know, the physical part of it, but also the emotional part of the bullying and in alcohol and drugs and impacting people’s lives.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, okay. All right. So do you think that because you were bullied as a child, that’s why you decided to really concentrate on bullying and preventing it and the awareness of it?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
I think that could have had an influence on my focus as far as education and as far as making sure that I’ve looked for resources to help people because one of the things that I’ve always done is I’ve always sought out, tried to find help not just for myself but also for others. So I’ve had a lot of training in so many different fields because I even, I can’t even remember before I actually, I mean, right up right before we, my husband and I moved to Iowa, I worked with the Parents to Assume program, and that’s where the young girls ages 12, 13, 14, 15 years old had children of their own. So we basically worked with them to help them to, you know, help provide them with skills so that they could be better parents. So I’ve had a number of, I don’t know, I guess that’s my, I guess my need to just, if I can help, if there’s any way I can help, I’m looking to provide some half skills to help others who are in need.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. All right. So now is there a particular age when bullying starts?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
You know what, I’ve heard bullying starting as young as the, you know, primary grades, first grade, second grade. It’s usually, it can happen, sometimes it can happen when, it can happen a number of different ways. Sometimes it can happen when someone doesn’t like, you mentioned someone doesn’t like someone, or even if someone does not, doesn’t like the way someone looks. So what they’ll do is they’ll make fun of them. But I think what happens is when you have other people who are around who are actually participating in that, so you have like the bystanders, the bystanders will sort of cheer it on and or not say anything to help the victim, the person who’s actually being, who’s suffering from that victimization, the target.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. Now, some people will say, oh, they’re just teasing that person. What’s the difference between teasing and bullying?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Okay. Teasing usually happens when people are of equal standard or they’re friendly, you know, they’re basically friends with each other. So it’s like an agreement. Okay, I’m teasing, I’ll tease you, you tease me. But if it gets to a point where I’m not involved in the conversation, someone is more so just saying something bad to me, then that’s not teasing, that’s actually bullying and intimidating someone. So it has to be like an even equal exchange. So if it’s not an equal exchange and or the person didn’t agree to it, then that’s basically bullying.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. I know you talked about different reasons for people to bully, well, especially kids, you know, to bully another child. And when I was talking with my girlfriend and I asked her, well, why were you bullied? And she said, well, because I was the nice, quiet, you know, girl. I wouldn’t say anything to anyone. If someone said something to me, I just wouldn’t say anything. And so she said, and so that’s, they would push me, you know, walking down the hall. And I’m like, we were best friends. You never told me that, you know? And so that leads me to a point about bullying. Do kids, do they keep it to themselves mostly, or do they tell someone or tell their friends or even their parents, or do they have a tendency to keep it to themselves?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Sometimes what young people will do is they won’t say anything because I’ve heard, I’ve had parents to tell me, okay, my child was bullied, but the child never said anything. So no one knew. And it’s really important that parents are mindful of other children because sometimes they won’t say anything because they don’t want parents to know, they don’t want them to interfere, so they don’t say anything. But it’s so important that our parents stay in touch and check the child’s behavior because we know our children. If a child comes home, they’re quiet, withdrawn, or just not, you know, when they’re asked, how’s everything going? Oh, everything is fine. Instead of just asking them and talking to them. And our young people, our children need to be encouraged. As long as they know that they’re the best that they are and that you love them, they have to be loved, they have to be cared for, they need to be encouraged and motivated because no one on the outside has the ability to tell someone their value. They shouldn’t have that ability and they shouldn’t have that right. So parents need to be able to, parents or loved ones need to just let their children know, okay, you love, you’re important. No one can measure them and just say, okay, I don’t like you because your hair is like that. But, and you know, they need to know my hair’s like this and I like it or just be able to say something to let them know that they’re confident in who they are because most of the time that can distract someone from wanting to bully them because usually when someone thinks that they’re provoking someone and getting them all upset, then they usually follow through on it and keep doing it.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. So who are the worst bullies, boys or girls?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh, that’s a good question. I think back to the last school where I was, oh my goodness, it was my girls. It was my girls. My girls were, oh, they were, some of them were really mean. They were mean to each other. They were mean to other people. And I did try, I attempted to bring in mental health services for them. But I think one of the things when you bring in the resources, they have to, they really need to be culturally sensitive to the young people they’re working with because if they don’t know the backgrounds a lot of times of the young people, it’s hard for them to relate to them. But our girls are very mean and it was cyber bullying, it was regular bullying, and it took bringing in parents because usually I believe that if children are involved in bullying, you need to make sure those parents are involved because there needs to be a sense of accountability, whether it’s in-person bullying or whether it’s cyber bullying because both of them can have a negative impact on our young people.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So I’m going to ask you a psychological question. Why do kids bully? Why?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
I would say sometimes kids bully because they were bullied. So the victim who was bullied decides, okay, no one helped me or no one saw what was going on with me, then the only thing I can do is get back, get even with someone else and make them feel bad. But one of the key reasons is that hurting people hurt others. So a lot of times they’re, sometimes they’re going through things and no one really knows. And with Senate Bill 100, one of the things that it states is that when bullying takes place, there are resources that are supposed to be provided for the victim as well as for the one who’s doing the bullying. And it can be provided for not only the children but also the parents.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So talking about parents, do you find that sometimes the kids that are doing the bullying, their parents are bullies?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
[Laughter] I don’t mean to laugh at, yes, yes. I had one student, an eighth-grade student, and I called the parent. I said, ma’am, I said, your daughter was fighting this boy, and I just, and you know, I’m just concerned, so I wanted to bring it to your attention. You told me what she said. I understand. She said, I had to, I was fighting his father, and I just got out of jail. So I’m like, okay. I said, all right, thank you. So I, you know, I had to change my, you know, actually changed my technique because for that parent, I knew I couldn’t go to her and let her know what was going on with her daughter because it was something that was actually going on at home. So that’s when I really needed, I knew that the mental health services were needed not just for other things but also for the schools. And like I said, it really was helpful for the populations who were the students who were in the building.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, all right. And then I also wondered, does a kid who’s a bully grow up to be an adult bully? You know, has there been any research on that?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Well, as far as research, I’m not quite sure, but I know for a fact I’ve read some articles, and it’s been said that people who were bullied and they’ve been victims, sometimes they don’t, it stays with them. But one person said she was bullied, and the perpetrator or the, not the perpetrator, but the bully actually came to them seeking them out to apologize.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah, and the person said it made such a difference in her life. But yes, I have seen, I’ve seen adult bullies, and I’ve seen them, and it has the same impact on the adults as it has on the children.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, yeah. I had started looking, you know, up stuff about bullying, and it was surprising to me when I saw a lot of entertainers talking about, you know, that they were bullied as a kid and how they still remember. And then I also read some things, some articles about how sometimes the bully who feels that they have really influenced someone’s life negatively, when they have gone to apologize.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, you know, for being a bully. Well, I don’t know where this guy is, but he needs to come and apologize to me.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Well, you know what, you’re not even worried about him anymore because he’s, whatever he’s done, I’m sure he’s living that life.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
But isn’t it something, you know, that, I mean, this happened in elementary school, but a lot of things I don’t remember, but I remember that.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
But you know what, I’m sure it hasn’t taken anything away from you as a person. I know, I think sometimes people say things that they don’t really, sometimes they really don’t understand what they’re saying because for him to come and say that to you, and I don’t know, did he say that to you in front of people or were you?

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, that’s why I remember. We were in the classroom.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said it in front of people. But to tell you, for a long time after that, you know, I was really, I guess, sensitive about my boobs.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Well, you know, for a long time, you know, you’re a girl or something, and you know, I was flat-chested for a long time.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You know, and so what I’m saying is that even as adults, we look back and we can see how bullying really, it goes away in a sense, the act itself goes away, but the feeling, I don’t have that feeling anymore, but for a long time, I did have that feeling. So let me ask you another question before we go to break. Has social media impacted bullying?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh, definitely. Yes, indeed. That’s where you have your cyberbullying.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh, yes. And so that definitely has a serious negative impact on our young people because a lot of times they can perpetrate bullying without being, not without being shown, but one of the things about that, we have someone presenting on cyberbullying, and they work for the state’s attorney’s office. They said a number of the people who are doing the cyberbullying, they said they’re adults.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Wait a minute.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, some of them are adults.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Wait, wait, wait. Bullying kids?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. So you have children who are doing it, and then you have adults who are pretending to be children who are doing it. And so one of the things that they do, they said they sort of just batter them and sort of say negative things to the children. I mean, they’re saying this, but they catch these people. They are able to catch them because they’re, you know, well, they’re also, some of them might be, I won’t say predators, but some of them, you know, they’re just on the, they’re definitely on the computers or just reaching out to our young people and doing things that they shouldn’t say, saying things that they shouldn’t do, and then hurting them, saying, oh, well, maybe you should die or something like that.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah, so that’s, and some of our young people are listening to some of that, and then some of them are committing suicide.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Not too often, but yes, they said the young people are committing suicide, and statistics say that our young black males are committing more, committing suicide at a higher rate than really any, I mean, a lot, a lot than anyone else at this time.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
It’s been attributed to bullying?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Some of it has been attributed to bullying.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh my goodness, that is so sad. You know, that’s something I really, I didn’t know, you know, because when you see something about cyberbullying, it’s usually kids, you know, cyberbullying and other kids, but I didn’t know that adults would do anything like that.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
My goodness, that is terrible. Well, Dr. Dorothy, I have to take a quick break.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Okay.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And I have some comments that came through.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Okay.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So I’m just flabbergasted, I really am. You know, I mean, you just really knocked me for a loop.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah, and see, we bring, we have, when we have, every year we have a conference, we usually try and have a conference or a summit, and we bring professionals in, and they speak not only to adults, educators, and everyone else, but also to our young people.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, all right. When we come back, I have some more questions, and then I want to talk about your organization.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Okay, sounds good.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Right back. [Music] [Applause] [Music] All right, we are back with Dr. Dorothy Towns Thompson. A comment came in from Sandy Barney. She said, “I was bullied when I was younger, something neither of my parents or grandparents would approve of.” Oh, I bullied. Now, I was bullied, Sandy, but it was fun at the time because I was a bully. I believed it had made me softer as an adult. She regrets her past behaviors, and she says, “I wish I could tell those I bullied how sorry I am.” Maybe that’s why I know Sandy is a retired school teacher.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
That’s why you became a teacher, Sandy, so that, you know, you can help people.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Your children. Oh my goodness. So let’s talk about your organization. So now the name of it is Bullying Prevention and Awareness. What are the aims and the objectives of your organization? What’s the role?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Okay, the main thing that we do is we try to seek out, we seek out ways to provide training to help keep our young people safe, and we’re looking to provide that training to educators, to parents, to administrators, to community members, to anyone who’s working with children or working with students because it’s not just for schools, it’s also for churches and organizations. We’ve had an opportunity to present at various venues, and we’ve had an annual event for the last four years. We started out in 2017 having our very first conference at National Louis University. The second one was at Chicago State University. We had our third event, which was a summit at Global Studios, and our fourth event was to take place at the University of Illinois in Chicago, and because of COVID, we had to have our event, we had to take it virtual. So, you know, we have, we’re composed of educators, administrators, business people, parents, clergy, we have various ministers on here who are part, work with us, and also I forgot to mention, I am an ordained minister also.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, okay. So now when did you establish this organization?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
In 2016.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, okay. So it’s relatively new.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, it is. It really is because what we’re looking to do, because one of the key things that we want to do is we want to partner with at least two schools, and with those two schools, we want to just work with them to bring in some resources, any research to help them identify resources that they need, and also help bring in those resources as well as just help support some of the, support the youth, especially providing incentives for attendance, incentives for behavior, and then even if there’s a need for getting those mental health services, I’d like to try and see if we can get those, make those available for the young people also.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. Is it a non-profit?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, we’re non-profit.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, okay. All right. And so your audience, when you have these summits and conferences, who’s your audience?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Our audience includes educators, administrators, parents, community members, any adult, any adult who wants to receive that training and that support. We also have our youth. We identify young people, and we try, we focus on grades, we initially said eight and up, but I think our fifth graders are really, the information is really important for them also because they need to hear it also. So we usually just do that intermediate and upper grade as well as with our high school students.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So you said training. So what does the training consist of?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
It’s more so, it’s workshops, it’s training them, giving them information on, some of them might have background on what is bullying, but if we bring in, like I said, we bring in professionals, we brought in someone from the state’s attorney’s office, we brought in different people from other areas or other fields. We’ve had Global, well, the director of Global Girl, she came in, she focused, that’s an arts performance organization, and so she’s teaching life skills, and with the performing arts, the young people are learning confidence, they’re learning different ways that they can just express themselves and become confident, they become more confident in who they are.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. Now, my show focuses on relationships, and a question came to my mind about kids who are bullies and the kids who are being bullied. Does this affect their relationships, let’s say, with their peers, and does it affect the relationship they have with their parents? Let’s say if you’re being bullied, how does this affect your relationship with your peers and with your parents?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Well, for the ones who are being bullied, usually it impacts their attendance in school, it impacts their involvement in class, it just, it can create a real hostile situation for them with school. So they’ll, you know, some of them will say that they’re sick and they’re not able to go to school, and this usually happens if the young people are not sharing with their parents that they’re being bullied. Because one of the things that should always be done, if a child is being bullied, it should always be reported to the teacher first. If nothing is done, the administrator, and then if nothing is done, then you go to the regional office, because no child should feel uncomfortable in being in school or feel unsafe or anything else that keeps them from being their best and being successful.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, okay. We have another comment here from Nicole Thompson, same last name. So Nicole says, “Hurt people hurt people. It’s true in many cases, especially when you’re trying to shrink yourself so you earn a target,” which is my girlfriend when she said she was bullied. “When I was younger, I was bullied or teased, which often led to me in turn wanting to direct the attention away from myself. I would joke about it or make fun of someone who didn’t deserve that treatment. I even knew at the time it was wrong, and it would feel knots in my stomach immediately. I did this just a few times, but that’s a handful of lives I affected.”

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah. And another question, Maxine wants to know about adults bullying. Do you, now, I know you focus mostly on kids, but does your organization do anything as far as adults bullying? Because I know some adults who are bullies.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Well, I haven’t had, no one has invited us to come out or invited me to come out, but I will definitely speak to adults and speak to them about adults being bullies because I’ve seen it, and it’s, first and foremost, I’d just like to say it’s unfortunate. I’m glad Nicole came on and shared with us, and so, but with Maxine, the adult bullies, it’s, to me, it’s harmful because that can impact somebody’s livelihood, just like with school, it’s impacting school. But if someone is being bullied in any case, it’s intimidation, it’s harassment, and it doesn’t, and it’s definitely not comfortable. But if a person is doing something that’s really hurtful, I think it needs to be addressed, and sometimes it’s the words, you know, people can’t bring themselves to just sharing whatever is going on with them, but there should be another trusted superior person that they can tell. But I know that that doesn’t happen all the time, and sometimes, I know sometimes it might be someone in charge who might be doing some of that.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
All right. And Carol Jones wants to know, do the bullied ever turn into bullies themselves?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, yes, there’s definitely evidence of that because when someone is being bullied or intimidated and no one addresses that it’s wrong, because sometimes people, you know, the adults will say, “Oh, he’s not hurting you,” or, “Oh, no, your skin is tougher than that.” That’s never the right answer. That should never be something that’s said where someone feels comfortable just saying, you know, like, “Oh, he’s just being weak.” So then someone who’s being bullied would say, “Okay, well, it’s my turn. Let me do someone and let’s see how they feel about this.” And they usually get someone else who they feel they can get away with it.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
What’s the worst bullying story that you’ve seen?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Well, there’s one, but it involved so many people. It was one where once girls from one school went to another school to fight, and this started off, this all started on Facebook. So it was some kind of relationship that was going on after school, outside of school, but they brought it into the building. So it had such a ripple effect. We had to bring in people from downtown or central office, bring in some, bring in all the parents. It was really time-consuming, but in order to get to the bottom, you know, to get to the bottom of it and make sure everything was resolved, we had to go through all those steps.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh my goodness gracious.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yeah.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So that was, it was really just convoluted and, you know, a lot, but it had to be done. So how do we as adults, you know, I know you touched on it a little bit, but what can we do to prevent bullying? Is there a way that we can prevent bullying?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
The only thing I can say, I can start out by saying I think it’s complicated because one thing that people can do is, I mean, if people are held accountable or when they see it taking place and it’s stopped, you can, you know, you can’t see it and then say, “Oh, oh, that’s okay.” No, it has to be stopped, and then people need to know that it’s wrong and it’s not going to be accepted. And sometimes you can, you know, you can set boundaries, but everyone has to be a part of that, the adults and the children, and everyone has to be speaking on the same page. They need to know what the definition of bullying is. We need to know that they can’t say it’s an exception for this person, but, well, that person is okay. It has to be something where all of the parents come, all of the parents know, everyone is informed, every adult within that building, not just the teachers, not just the principal, not just ESPs, but every adult knows what that is. And so they need to make sure that they’re creating a climate where every child feels safe, every adult feels safe. It has to be like a common mantra. It can’t be, it’s one way this way, this day, and another way that day. It has to be everyone is on the same page, keeping, first and foremost, keeping the children safe, and then also making sure that everyone else is safe within that building.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And as far as adults, Natalie Baltimore says that HR, human resources, can always be used as a resource for adult bullying in the workplace because, yeah, it’s also important to seek counseling for all types of bullying.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
It can, in the workplace, turn into harassment.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
I don’t want to leave out with, you have a book.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Tell us about your book.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
The name of my book is “What to Do When You Believe in Something.” It’s actually in basic auto, it’s an autobiography, but at the same time, it’s like the coming of age. It’s a paperback book, and it actually outlines the first 20 years of my life, and it’s a blend between inspiration and also telling my story.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And is that book available to purchase?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, it is.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And how do we get your book?

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Well, it’s a number of ways you can get the book. You can call and order a copy, or it can be an e-book that’s purchased on Amazon.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, yes, yes. Okay. And also, we want to see if people want to get in contact with you as far as your program, your organization is concerned. I’m putting for the audience, yes, awareness365@gmail.com.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And that is Dr. Dorothy’s email or whatever you want to say, so however you want to call it to get in contact with her. And if you want to see her website, and I went on your website, it’s amazing, it’s bullyingprevention365.org.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes, yes, yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You are doing some amazing work, and it’s something that’s so, so, so very much needed, you know, because you hear about kids, and I know we only have a few minutes, but we were talking about the results of bullying. I started thinking about the kids that have gone into schools with rifles and guns.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And you find out they did this because they were bullied.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, because they were bullied, and a lot of them didn’t tell anyone or told someone and they were ignored, you know, or their parents will say, “Well, you know, yes, his or her behavior did, has changed. I did notice this, I did notice that,” you know. And it’s, I think that as a parent, you know, you must pay attention to your children.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
If you see something different, you know, talk to them about it. But then that starts early where you really have to have that conversation with your kids so your child will feel like they can come to you and express these things. I never said anything to my mother, you know, about me. And even I was telling my girlfriend way back then, you know, there were two big bullies I remember, and the kids would surround you, and you know, the bully would be calling you all kinds of things, you know, the kids will push you into, then you start fighting and stuff like that. But the one bully, I was so scared, she was a big tall girl, bigger and taller than me, and she was out, “I’ll see you outside after.” And we thought, well, I was so scared of the girl, I had to call my mother to come and pull me off of her.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Oh my goodness.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
But we became friends afterwards.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
I know.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You know, but I’m just, you know, that’s a light note, but I just want to emphasize that the work that you’re doing is so very, very important, very important.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
Yes.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And I appreciate you coming on the show, I really do. And I hope that you, my audience out there, I hope that you listened, and if you see a child being bullied, speak up, if you see help. Dr. Dorothy, thank you so much. I appreciate you coming, and hopefully people go on bullying prevention 365. Thank you so much, Dorothy. Don’t go away, just stay in the green room for a little while.

Dorothy Towns-Thompson
All right, and thank you so much, Dr. Janice, for having me on.

Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, I appreciate it, I appreciate it. Okay, thank you. Well, I hope that you all really got something out of that show because bullying is something that’s going on, and it’s something that shouldn’t be swept up on the rug. It’s something that we really should pay attention to. Last week, I did the show on substance abuse with teens, and when you think about it, these two subject matters, they, you know, they kind of mesh together because one can lead to the other. Now, if you would like to advertise on my show with some eye-catching videos and increase your visibility, please contact us at 1-877-667-7325 or janfornow125@gmail.com. And if you would like to be a guest on the show, you can contact us at janfornow125@gmail.com. I thank all of you for tuning in today. This was very important, and here is something I should put right now, so this bullying prevention and awareness every day. So for those who are interested in learning more, again, that’s bullyingprevention365.org. I will see you all next week, and I definitely, definitely hope that you enjoy the show this evening. So until next week, it’s Relationship Matters with Dr. Jan. Bye-bye. [Music]