Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Good morning, good afternoon, good evening wherever you are in the world. It’s Dr. Jan Fortman with Relationship Matters TV. I hope everyone is having a beautifully blessed morning, afternoon, or evening. We are here in Chicago and they’re telling us that this is the last day of, well, what they used to call Indian summer. I don’t know if that’s politically correct now, but anyway, it’s the last of our 60° weather. And what I was looking at the forecast by next week, ah, I think on Thanksgiving day, it’s going to be in the 30s and then at night it’s going to go down into the 20s. I’m not ready, I’m not ready. Well, I’m going to get started with our guest because we got a lot to talk about and I’m sure that you are going to be pleasantly surprised at who I have today. I’m going to show you just a little bit about them before I bring them on, give you a teaser.
[Music]
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
I’m rocking to that music, it’s really great. So let me tell you a little bit more about who the guests are. It’s Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle. She is a communication expert and conflict resolution strategist, a facilitator, an international speaker, and a leadership coach with over 40 years of experience. So she must have started when she was like five in blending the connection between communication, conflict, and culture. And she’s contributed to articles about breaking culture conflict and cultural breakthroughs to psychology. Her expertise is in helping people transform their lives and persevere and triumph in the most difficult leadership situations. And you know what, I want to grow, when I grow up, I want to be like her because she has been doing workshops and deep coaching from Harlem to Hong Kong and from South Bronx to South Africa. Well, let me tell you about this young man, her son, Justin Hurdle Price, is also a speaker, a facilitator, and a strategic communication specialist. And he started his conflict resolution workshops for young people and adults at the age of 10. At 10 years old, I don’t know what I was doing, but I sure, you know, I think I was playing outside. Anyway, he’s called facilitated workshops in schools for nonprofits and at national conflict resolution conferences all over the country. He’s also worked as a trainer and coach for young people from all different backgrounds and he has helped design workshops for parents, teachers, and young people. Now he currently, um, excuse me, works for, it’s H, I think it’s her communication solutions as a strategic communication specialist involved in designing cutting-edge workshops and it includes topics talking with teens and young adults about racism and also working with people and managing people who have anxiety. Good grief, young man. He is also a co-facilitator in the On the Matter of Race program and for Youth Thrive Educational Services transforming conflict for college students. Good grief, I, you know what, let me just bring them on because I will be reading for the next hour of all what they do.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Oh, thank you, thank you. Yes, amazing intro, thank you so much.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Well, it’s, I mean, you know what, it’s all about both of you.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, it’s all about both of you and you know, I love your opening.
Justin Hurdle Price
Oh, the jam definitely came out better than we ever thought and we’re definitely blessed to have it.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So, so I really welcome both of you for being on my show tonight.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Well, thank you for having us.
Justin Hurdle Price
Yeah, the pleasure is ours.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, well, I mean, the pleasure really is all mine. So, you know, let’s jump in right now.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, so I’m gonna start with Dr. Lynn. Okay, so now when I was reading about your conflict and cultural breakthroughs to, uh, uh, as far as psychology is very interesting. Tell us about that.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, I was writing for, for close to three years, I wrote a column for Psychology Today. I was writing articles for them and really around conflict in culture. And a lot of people don’t know the connection. I feel like they’re cousins that we don’t pay attention to how much culture affects the way that we do conflicts as well as the conflicts that we have in our lives. And so I would write about things like cultural gatekeepers, the folks who, when you are at work or not even just at work, but the folks even in community who, when they see you stepping outside of some cultural norm because you’ve decided that that’s not what you want to live by, they’re the ones that try to pull you back or shame you and say, no, this is, this is not who you are, right? You’re not, for me, I identify as African-American, so it’s like, no, that’s not black enough. You can’t do that. Or that’s not how we raise our children because my children really were raised on conflict resolution. And so I, my husband and I, we got a lot of backlash for that, right? Because it takes a little more patience and a little more of letting them be who they are in order for them to start to learn how to really use the skills and how to communicate better. And it was not this like snatch them up kind of, and so people definitely had opinions about that. But whether it’s that or whether it is just that you find people who absolutely will not step outside the culture, it could even be work culture, that this isn’t how we do things and they’re going to hold the line and say, everybody’s got to do it according to whatever the culture says. And so I really liked writing about what were the things that we were in conflict about when it came to the kind of cultural connections that we have.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Well, what are some of the things?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Well, interested that, so things like really respect is an interesting one for me because whenever someone says respect is important to them, everybody thinks that they agree. Everybody kind of nods their head and says, yeah, that’s right, respect is important. But people don’t understand that respect means different things to different people. And if you really don’t understand someone’s cultural norms, like something as simple as when I was teaching students on, in particular on the college level here, in particular in the United States, we like respect to be shown by looking us in the eye. And then there are cultures all over the world that actually could never look you in the eye because they have to show you respect by not meeting your gaze because you’re the authority, you’re, you’re a professor, like that’s a big thing. And it could be adults, like really that it doesn’t really matter. One of the most interesting times I had was in a workshop where there was a gentleman who the whole time that I was teaching, he was going like this. And so when I got to this piece about respect, he said, oh, thank you. He said, I, um, in my country, we show respect like this and I had to keep remembering, no, I’m in America, so I got to do this. And he said, but then I do this because it’s natural. And then I remember, he said, thank you. I said, just do whatever is comfortable for you. But it was so ingrained. So that’s one of the things that I find that we have conflict about. Even roles, right? Who plays what particular role? For me, in conflict resolution, I did a lot of mediation and I did a lot of mediation with families. And for some families, culturally, I’m not sitting down and talking to my child or any child because what I say goes and there’s no negotiating here. They’re going to do what I say or there’s going to be problems. And what we were trying to do is just establish a way of communicating because some of the young people were really having problems and they didn’t have anybody to talk to and they didn’t feel like they could talk with their parents. And so we would try to facilitate that. But there were some people who really hardened it, no, absolutely not. The simple rule is I’m the adult, you’re the child. There’s no conversation when I tell you something is right or wrong or, and your feelings, hey, we all have feelings, suck it up. It’s really, so those were two of the things that were really standing in the way when it came to conflict and creating a lot more conflict than I felt they needed to be if folks could really just have an opportunity to sit and talk about it and see how they might be able to resolve some of the conflict.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, so it kind of gives me a different take on conflict resolution.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Okay.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, because I was thinking, well, since I, well, I was a teacher and I did want to, I was shaking my head when you were talking about that respect thing.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes, I saw you.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, because we had, in high school I was teaching and it was a very diverse as far as culture was concerned. And we had children who would look down when we were speaking to them and some of the teachers would say, look at me, look at me, look, you know, and they wouldn’t. And that was because of, I think they were from, was it Syria or something? And that was because, like you said, the respect means, you know, looking down and not really looking at you in your eye. Whereas in our culture, it’s like, look at me when I’m talking.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
That’s right. Yeah, that’s right. Absolutely. That’s right. And that’s actually one of the things, there was a lot of conflict in schools because of that very thing where teachers were telling them to look, look at me or taking them to the office and saying they were being disrespectful.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, yes, yeah. Wow, wow. So when I was saying about a different take on it and when you were saying conflict resolution, when I was reading, I thought that meant more so when you have a conflict with a person, in other words, arguing or disagreeing.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
It means that too.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Then, okay.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes, absolutely.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So let me ask you this. So let’s say I’m from our culture and it’s a different culture and I’m having a conflict and I feel that there’s a certain way I think we’re supposed to resolve this conflict. Is this what you do when you give your workshops or, you know, that you?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, so there’s a few things, right? So when we give workshops, we talk about some of the different cultural barriers or the reasons that people tend to be in conflict more because of different cultural issues. But then there’s also, so we both have served in the role of mediator. So if they have a person, that particular person that they’re in conflict with, if they want to come together to sit at the table and talk about what’s happening with the conflict, we serve in that role as well as the person who’s really listening, guiding the flow of the conversation, not telling them what to say, but helping them to hear one another and then listen for places where they agree so that they really understand why they’re having the conflict. They understand more about each other and then they start thinking and working hopefully together for a resolution.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, okay. So now, Justin.
Justin Hurdle Price
Yes.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Now, 10 years old.
Justin Hurdle Price
Yeah.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
My kids had to work.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, yeah, 10, 10 years old.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, oh, child labor, you know, they’re a child labor.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Oh, he was getting paid.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Very well.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Feeding him and clothing him, right? Giving him a place to live.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
10 years old though. So Justin, what made you start, you know, focusing on this at 10 years old?
Justin Hurdle Price
Yeah, so that’s a great question because I feel like in some areas I’m still wrestling with an answer to this day at 22. Because at the end of the day, like you said, at 10, you know, kids are playing, kids are outside. And I definitely was, but I had to get home at a certain hour to wake up at 7:00 AM the next day and, you know, put on my business casual clothes and, you know, go to work. And I think at the end of the day for me…
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Your business casual, not business casual, the program you worked in, you wore suits.
Justin Hurdle Price
Oh, okay, okay. I mean, you know, maybe that’s just me being a little modest, but yeah.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Wait, at 10 years old?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah.
Justin Hurdle Price
Yes, yes, yeah, fully suited, fully, yeah.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Not every day, but you had to dress, you had to dress for business.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes, because we wanted young people, since they were going to go before other young people and adults, we wanted them to get this sense of if you had to go corporate, you could do it, no question. You had the confidence, you knew what was expected. So anything beneath, in between, you got that. Because once you feel like you can survive and thrive in that environment, then everything else is less scary and a lot of times less formal. And a lot of these young people that were working, because he wasn’t the only young person, he was just the youngest of the young people, they had never had suits and they had never had the occasion to stand in front of someone in a suit and see what that felt like and encourage other young people to see themselves beyond where they were. And that was just a part of the job.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, yeah. So, so Justin, how did you feel? I mean, were you scared or nervous or, or, or, you know, did you think the kids were gonna make fun of you or, and did they?
Justin Hurdle Price
Yeah, so yeah, some, some kids definitely gave me a hard time as, you know, kids will when conflict comes up over obviously little things and kids stuff at that time in your life. You know, when I’m trying to like talk things through and I’m like, you know, what is, what’s that making you feel? Why are you taking this out on me? You know, so yeah, I definitely dealt with that, that kind of stuff and that kind of push back, you know, as soon as I started. But at the end of the day, I knew that the skills that I was, that I was learning and that, and the opportunities that I was given and that I worked for, to be completely honest, would in the long run help me achieve the goals that I have for myself way sooner. And so at the end of the day, yeah, it was definitely tough being 10 and 11 and 12 and, you know, kids are babysitting or having, you know, lemonade stands and all that stuff. And I’m waking up at 7:00 AM to put on a suit and say a mantra every morning that gets me, you know, motivated. But these are things that, you know, over time build up into character and, you know, I’m definitely proud of who I am today and only aspire to grow and be better. So I’m grateful.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So what was, what was your mantra?
Justin Hurdle Price
Oh, I had a few. What was, um, just do good. I don’t remember. I don’t remember. I had a few. But we have, we have one that goes, good, good, good, good, better, better, better, better, best, best, best, best, never let it rest till your good gets better and your better gets best. So these were things that, you know, 8:00 AM, we came in as young people just, you know, ready to honestly step outside of whatever we had envisioned for ourselves at that point and strive to do more.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Wow. I mean, this is, this is really amazing to me. So Justin, yeah. Okay. So, uh, what about, uh, um, it says now you are the creator of a group called the, uh, the matter of race.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
I’m the creator and he’s a co-facilitator.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. So now what is that? Tell us about that.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
That’s a program for white people who are interested in learning about racism in the United States because they want to understand and then actually take some action in their part of the world, right, to help to dismantle racism. And it was started four and a half years ago at really the request of two friends and co-workers who were also in a business group that I was in. And they were white women, one from Utah, one from, where is she from, um, Cincinnati. And for the first time they were having friends, they had friends of color in their life. They had never, they never had that before. They lived in all white communities and they did not understand when conversations around racism were coming up. They really had no clue. And sometimes they really felt like they didn’t believe their new friends. And they realized that they were, they were the problem, not the friends, that there was something, something that was missing for them in this conversation. And they really wanted to know what it was. They did not like sitting in a situation and having their friends say, that was just racism. And then, and then they’re saying, oh, are you sure? I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s what it was about. And they didn’t feel comfortable with that. So they asked if I would do it. And I first said no. And because I’ve done this, I’ve done this work a lot. And unfortunately, the way that we tend to do this work is mandate people to come. And when you mandate people, a lot of people, especially white people, are just like, I don’t know, I do not want to have this conversation. I do not want to come. But they come. So there’s also resistance in the room. It’s already an uncomfortable conversation. But when there’s resistance to even letting anything in, I do that work. But I didn’t want to start a group of people like that, that I didn’t want to do. So I finally said yes, because number one, they both needed it. And number two, I thought that it was what I was supposed to do. And it’s been proven right the entire time, no matter how I’ve tried to not do it, it continues to grow. It’s really, really, really needed.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, it is. I mean, that service is something that actually, if there were groups like this all over, you know, maybe this would be a better world and especially a better United States of America.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
I absolutely agree. And you need to hear Justin’s origin story into On the Matter of Race.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And I was getting ready to ask that.
Justin Hurdle Price
Perfect, perfect. So perfect segue. I was just, so about a year and a half ago, I was home just hanging out. My mom was teaching one of her classes and I’d come out to get a snack or something in the kitchen, just regular stuff. But I overheard a very deep, intuitive conversation going on. I couldn’t see anyone’s face or anything. I didn’t want to disrupt. So I was kind of eavesdropping from the kitchen, hanging out. I got a stool in there. So I was sitting down, listening and taking in what was being said. So towards the end of the class, when it was wrapped up, I had approached my mom and I’d say, you know, what’s this? What was that? What are you doing? And she had said, this is my On the Matter of Race program, teaching white people about systemic racism in the US, helping them find a way to do something about it in their own lives, in their own fields. And my initial reaction was simply like, are you just yelling at these white people, like making them feel bad about being white? Like, are you like, what, how is that even possible? Are they showing up to just like hear you rant or how is this space even created? I’ve never heard of this before. And when we got into the logistics of it, I was very intrigued. And I got invited to be a guest speaker a couple of times, to which that turned into the actual participants wanting me to come in and offer just my experience as a young black man growing up in the Bronx who has attended PWIs his entire life.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Wait a minute, I don’t know what PWI was to make sure I do that.
Justin Hurdle Price
A private white institution. So growing up in those communities, I felt just very out of touch. I felt like I was kind of living in two worlds because these are kids and families that I was going to school with that had wealth. I mean, you know, like a Gucci belt, a kid was having a Gucci belt as an accessory in sixth grade, right? Whereas I’m coming in with beat up Nikes and just playing outside and still really being a kid. And so I really felt like I was living in two different worlds and two different kind of bodies and experiences. And coming into this work, I really got to just not just learn about some of the gaps that I had created for myself in my experiences, right? And how have white people on hand close some of those gaps for me? I really got to be that first young black man that a lot of a few of the white people that we had come into our program, you know, really give their chance to let their hair down and get to know as a person, right? Outside of whatever they saw in the news, whatever maybe negative experience that they had with a person of color in their life or lack thereof, right? Of just overall exposure. You know, I really was that catalyst for some of these people. So it’s been about a year and a half. It’s been great. I absolutely love everyone that we work with and every single person that’s come into our work family in that realm. And as hard as it is, we embrace finding joy and struggle. You know, we laugh, we hold each other, we love, we only move in love. And it really is a beautiful thing that my mom has created, but that she has allowed me to now be a part of.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So in these groups, are there, what are the demographics?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
It’s just, it’s white people in the range. I think the youngest is probably 20s, late 20s, and the oldest is in their 60s and everything in between, in all the ages in between.
Justin Hurdle Price
Yeah, and all walks of life, you know, people in corporate at, you know, C-level executive positions. We have stay-at-home moms. We have, you know, just normal everyday people that want to learn what the experiences of their neighbors really are.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, and then we have people from all over the country. And we also have someone who actually is from the UK.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
And, and I’m sorry, and someone from the Netherlands.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, okay, okay. Now is this, this is virtual or is this?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes, it’s virtual. We meet two times a month for a six-month journey. Whenever our six-month journey start, our next one actually starts in January 2024. And it’s two 90-minute live facilitated virtual meetings. And we also do guest speakers three times within that six-month journey. We bring in people from different cultural backgrounds who are doing the work or who have lived experience talking about the systemic racism and how it deals, how it affects their lives. We just finished up today was our last day of a four-day summit. Yeah, as we are, is our third summit. And we do them in between our journeys so that we can invite also people of color in to hear the speakers that we bring in. And it’s been wonderful. And we just finished, we had in September, our very first live and in-person conference in Washington, DC. And that was phenomenal. We took people to the Smithsonian National African American Museum of History and Culture. The, the, I’m sorry, the hotel that we stayed, where we stayed was in walking distance of the museum. So we did a silent walk over to the museum together. We had two, we have two married couples in On the Matter of Race. And one of those couples decided that they wanted their 12 and 14-year-old to come and come to the museum with us so that they could learn. And they, it was wonderful. They really took the silent walk seriously. And we had speakers. We had one of, oh my goodness, Harriet Tubman’s, thank you, relatives who, yes, who came and she has, she does journeys. She takes people recreating the journeys that Harriet Tubman did. And so she came and spoke to the group because I am, when I was directed, I believe that I was led to do On the Matter of Race, I was also directed to study Harriet Tubman. So everybody in On the Matter of Race knows how important she is to me. And I had to have, find somebody who was going to come to our very first live conference and speak about her.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
That is so wonderful. So tell me, what reactions did you see from white people when they were doing that silent walk through that museum?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, the, just number one, that everybody took it very seriously, that it was something that they really felt was important. There were, my sister actually used to work at, oh, what’s the museum here?
Justin Hurdle Price
Historical Society.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Thank you, Historical Society here in New York. And she used to give tours. And so I hired her because I believe in family, right? I hired her to actually be on the tour with us so that she could also debrief us later on. And so she was there. My niece, who also works for me, she’s designed all the t-shirts for the event. She was there. And then we had two other people of color from one of our corporate spaces to come and be a part of it. So there were some people, people of color on the walk as well. And the reaction of the white people to them as well was really powerful because for us, particularly black people, we really were, it was move, we were so moved to walk up the streets, right, where all of the greats who were fighting for the same thing, unfortunately, we’re still fighting for the same thing, right? But still all of the greats who went to DC and the March on Washington, right, we were walking in those streets. And so for us, it was particularly moving. And then for the white people, it was, it was very moving too, to know that they could, in that kind of action, just feel that they were creating something that was making a difference. And we didn’t want it to be this like, oh, let’s stroll to the museum. And then we get to the museum and it’s very serious. We wanted to take it seriously from the start so that when we got to the museum, we were still in that frame of mind of reverence and openness. And we had a guided tour that was just phenomenal. And it was, we, our two guides were, one was African-American and one was white. And so that was a, it was really beautiful.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Wow. I haven’t been to that museum yet. And I really, really, really want to go.
Justin Hurdle Price
It is, it is a must-see for any and everyone. And I would just say, definitely make sure you are in the right head space to walk that museum, especially because there’s so many floors. So there’s so much information that talks about just every era of life in which that these barriers have honestly existed for our people. And yeah, I mean, definitely want to make sure you’re in the right head space, but I recommend that for any and everyone.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Absolutely. Okay. Well, a couple of questions have come in, but what I need to do is take a couple of brief commercials. And then when we come back, I want to go through these questions, number one. And number two, I want to know how mother, well, mama and son work together.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Okay, that’s perfect.
Justin Hurdle Price
Sounds good.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Want to know too.
Justin Hurdle Price
No, we know.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay. All right. So we will be right back with mother and son communication and conflict resolution experts, Dr. Lynn and Justin. So don’t go away. We shall be right back.
[Music]
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Now, Cutting the Ties is now out. It says coming soon, but the author called me today and said it is now out on Amazon.com in the digital version. And next week it will be out in hard copy. So, and I helped edit it. So go to Amazon.com and look for Cutting the Ties. Now, Dr. Lynn and Justin, here’s this question that came in. How would you encourage younger people to get involved in conflict resolution as compared to needing anger management later? So how would you convince them to get in, encourage them rather?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, well, do you want to take it or?
Justin Hurdle Price
Well, you got 40 years, you know, you’ve encouraged a lot of young people. So I think you got a little bit more of a formula than me, but I’ll add something.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Well, here’s my thing. I think that doing both actually works very well. If you do need anger management, then you should really get that help. I don’t think it’s, I don’t think you wait till later. I think if that’s what’s showing up for you, that you work on that. But in terms of conflict resolution and why you would want to do that is number one, if it’s causing problems for you, then you want to make sure that you have, give yourself the opportunity to do something different, to not have it cause problems, that you want to make sure that you have an opportunity to understand what is actually happening in the conflict. There are a lot of young people that get involved in fighting because they’ve not been offered any other way to really resolve. And even when there is a conflict resolution program in the house, usually a peer mediation program, sometimes the peers discourage them saying that it’s soft, it’s weak. But I will say that that’s not the majority. A lot of young people that I’ve worked with have been very grateful to have a mediation program in their school because the conflict is so ongoing, you know, and nobody seems to be able to deescalate it, at least not among their peers. They really appreciate the help given to them and just trying to talk it out because a lot of these conflicts start over very small things and they build quickly. You know, you want to talk about the, when we were talking about culture before, some of these conflicts start over a look. And you can say, oh, come on, that’s ridiculous. But culturally, nonverbals mean a lot. They communicate a lot. So, and in cultures, a look, right? I mean, I grew up with the look from my mom, you know?
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Oh, yeah.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
It didn’t take anything but the look, right? And now, and every African-American mother I knew had the look.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
The look.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
The look. So that’s a tie to cultures. When you say to kids, well, that’s just a ridiculous reason to fight, then you really aren’t validating that for them, it is a reason. Whether right or wrong, it’s a reason because of whatever cultural norm, it doesn’t have to be a racial culture, it could be the school culture, but it’s something that they feel that it’s important. So to get into mediation, to learn how to resolve conflicts yourself as well as with somebody helping you is really going to allow you to understand better what exactly happened and how you could do something differently.
Justin Hurdle Price
I just would love to offer one thing on top of that. And this is something I’ve definitely picked up from you, but a big piece of the way that we approach this work with everyone that we encounter, but especially with young people in underserved communities who are just going through these certain traumas and grieving at such a young age, right? And who don’t see another way for themselves. You know, we never want to take away the tools in which that have kept them safe and kept them alive up until that point in which that we got to cross paths, right? We recognize that you as a person, you have figured out whatever has worked for you up until that point. You’ve gotten up until this point in which we’ve been able to cross paths. And now that we have, we just want to expand that toolbox that you have so that it goes from something you can carry around to it feels like you’re carrying around a garage of different approaches that you can take to all of these different conflicts. And I think that, you know, with conflict resolution, you know, as opposed to, I guess, specifically anger management, so many more emotions come up as far as dealing with different conflicts. So we can talk about anxiety, we can talk about what the stages of grief, right? We can talk about all of these things and anger is one of them. But there are still other avenues that if you don’t tap into them, it can make you feel like, you know, those tools that you have are getting some rust on. And reality is we just want to expand people’s capacity, but also their want and willingness to try something a different way, knowing that whatever has worked has gotten them up to that point.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Oh, I love that you brought that up because that’s absolutely right. Yeah. You know, because this whole don’t fight thing, I get it. But you know what, in some of the places that young people live, that’s what helped them to survive. So he’s don’t take that out. You get to keep that. But now let’s put some more things in so that you have more choices and everything doesn’t look like it has to be a fight because, oh, I got something that I might want to try, right? Rather than throw hands right away, I can see if I can have this conversation, whatever it is, if I can listen more.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, right. So now I want to ask, how do you work together as mother and son? Wait a minute. And okay, so now actually you are business partners, but mama, do you ever like forget that, you know, you’re a business partner and you go into the mama mode?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Well, here’s the deal. We’re not business partners. The business is mine.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So straight on that.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Is he your employee?
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
He’s my employee, but yes, but yes. And one of the things that’s great is everything that we teach, we use in our own relationship. So there have been times when Justin has said, I just need you to recognize you have your mom hat on right now. Okay. And we’re in the meeting, business. And so I would really appreciate if you would flip to that other hat and speak to me differently. And I’m good with that. Number one, I never had that, always wanted that. Number two, it’s never disrespectful. And if it, it’s not that it, if it gets disrespectful, because if it does, I will say absolutely right now, absolutely that I appreciate that you want to say this to me, but the way you’re saying it, it’s not gonna work for me. So I’m gonna walk away and we’ll figure it out. And Justin’s always been good with, hey, you know what, apologize because I realized I was upset about such and such, or I was feeling this way about such and such that nothing to do with you, mom. So I really do apologize for coming at you like that. And I’m the same way. I got one apology my whole life from my mom. And as a result, I’ve always been really clear that there’s nothing wrong with apologizing when I know that I have done something that was wrong that I really didn’t mean to do. So we have that kind of relationship with one another. And I still know he does not forget that I am his mom, but I do have to still work on not putting the mom hat on.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
You know, I asked that question because my son, I mean, I tease him because that’s like AARP is gonna be knocking at his door soon. But every now and then, you know, I end up putting on that mama hat, you know, and I have to check myself like, come on now, Janice, he’s a grown man.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Can tell, he doesn’t say, you know, I can tell when I get that look like, I’m like, oh, okay. So, so Dr. Lynn, we only have a few minutes left, but you are an author.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And let’s see, the bestseller, Closing Conflict for Leaders: How to Be a Bold Leader. And you co-authored a book, The Difference, and the creator of the, what is this, Soul of Conflict Summit. Okay, so now where can we get your books?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
You can get my books on Amazon, are on Amazon. And I hope that you will. The Difference is a real inspirational one. If you’re looking for inspiration to get through some tough times, there are eight authors, co-authors who’ve written their stories. I’ve written my story is around my being diagnosed with infertility and losing my mom really back to back. And so I talk about, I write, I wrote about that particular story. And then for Closing Conflict for Leaders, it’s really about how to use the tools of conflict resolution to be the kind of leader that people want to be a part of your team, whether it’s a team at work or whether it’s your team at home, whether it’s a team in your place of worship or community.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, and you also did a TEDx talk.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
I did, yeah.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
On the weight of hate.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes, I did.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
So, wow. So briefly.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yeah, well, that’s a twist. People think the hate is probably about the work that we do, like in On the Matter of Race. Though the weight of hate for me is about my own personal experience with being someone who was always judged as overweight and the hatred that I received from childhood all the way through adulthood for being someone who was overweight. And I was a dancer and I was embarrassed by teachers because of the weight, even though I was really a good dancer. And so it’s really, the talk is about how we treat people when we’re talking about weight and how the hatred really does affect us and we can do better than that.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, so I have a comment here and I’m not sure of what it means, but it said it’s from Sir Kevin of Kevin, who is my Kevin.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Okay.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And I don’t know what you mean. It doesn’t, did he work for you? He said, I’ve been fired at least 12 times.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
What? That’s what I was thinking. That was my first thought.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
I have fired him.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
That makes sense.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, I am.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes, and you’re gonna be fired again.
Justin Hurdle Price
I will say never, Justin’s never been fired, but he has threatened to fire me. Then fire me then, if this ain’t gonna work, let me go. I’ll figure it out.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
10 plus years, yeah.
Justin Hurdle Price
Yeah, got, yeah, it’s gone.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
[Laughter] There. So as a last something you want to leave with my audience. Okay, Justin, what would you like to leave to my audience and Dr. Lynn? Wait a minute, two sentences at the most.
Justin Hurdle Price
Okay, I’ll keep it even briefer than that. First, thank you. But I would say that small is all. All it takes is something small every single day. All it takes is some form of trying something new, something different from yesterday. And I promise all of those things and those new things and new expansions can become a new culture for you and for the people that are around you. But it starts today.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, thank you. And Dr. Lynn?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
He’s mad at me because I held up two.
Justin Hurdle Price
It’s not even your show.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
It’s not even your show. Listen, listen more, listen more, listen deeply, and listen for what’s not being said. Listen for the heart.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yeah, okay. Okay, and you have a podcast coming up soon?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
No, we have a show, our show coming up soon.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
No, not a podcast, I’m sorry, a TV show coming up soon. And it also will be on Trajectory TV, which is what I’m on. And what is the name of your TV show to be coming on very, very, very, very soon?
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Yes, Working It Out Across Generations. That’s what the song, when you saw the song that was played, it’s Working It Out Across Generations.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Okay, so we’ll be looking forward, I’ll be looking forward to your show.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Thank you.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And I will definitely promote it.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Thank you.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
And I just really want to thank both of you for coming on this evening. It’s just been a plum pleasing pleasure.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Wonderful, and we’d love to have you on the show once we start having guests. We’d love to invite you as well.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Well, thank you, and I definitely accept that invitation.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
All right, beautiful, beautiful. You all have a beautiful blessed rest of your evening.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Thank you, you too.
Justin Hurdle Price
Thank you to everybody who tuned in.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Yes, definitely. Bye-bye.
Dr. Lynn Maureen Hurdle
Bye-bye.
Dr. Janice Hooker Fortman
Wow, this has been great, mother and son. So Sir Kevin of Kevin, you see how well they work together, okay? And maybe I won’t fire you for the 13th time. But anyway, I have really enjoyed this and I know that you’ve gotten quite a bit of value from this particular episode. Conflict resolution, it’s all about relationships. And as I always say, there are all kinds of relationships, excuse me, and all kinds of relationship matters. But what I want to say to you is that on, with tomorrow, you know what, I don’t even know how to share. Oh gosh, well anyway, you have to go to my Facebook page because tomorrow I am doing a webinar and the webinar is entitled, and where is it here, 10 Secrets, excuse me, on how not to throw mama and other relatives from the train during the holiday season. It is a one-hour master class and it’s all about keeping the family gathering friendly and conflict-free. And we know that there are times when drama happens over the holidays. So if you go to my Facebook page, you can either go to the Relationship Matters TV page or you can go to my Facebook page, Dr. Janice Fortman or Dr. Janice Hooker, either one, but just look for me and there is a link there in the events where you can attend virtually my webinar. So I’m so happy that you all came today to listen to Justin and Dr. Lynn. I want all of you to have a beautiful blessed rest of your morning, afternoon, or evening, wherever you are in the world. And next Thursday is Thanksgiving, and so I will be doing an encore. It will not be live. That way we all can enjoy our Thanksgiving dinners and Thanksgiving gatherings. So be sure and just have a wonderfully blessed Thanksgiving. Alrighty, see you all actually in two weeks with Ronda Brown, who is a singer. She has her own band. She is magnificent. You don’t want to miss it. So I will see you again in two weeks. Happy Thanksgiving. And remember, there are all kinds of relationships and all kinds of relationship matters. Life is about your relationships. Alrighty, see you next time.
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